I think you mean "ablest" (or possibly "disablest") because yes, it is an "e."
Also, I'm sorry if you feel it's insulting, but I don't think wanting cures for something is something to feel insulted about. Also, the prompt doesn't specifically state that the other character is disabled - only that they have some sort of long-lasting disease or curse. Considering those offered by the "preferred pairings," this disease or curse shouldn't really be considered disabling. Those characters are certainly capable of doing anything that most other people are capable of doing.
You've also forgotten to consider the fact that, yes, Jim Butcher's world is a world of faults. Harry is a misogynist to an extent - shifting that to someone else who has a problem he may be able to ease/cure.
Also, I fail to see how helping with a problem is insulting when we have prompts that include tentacle porn, borderline bestiality, rape, and fuck-or-die prompts and fills.
Tacking the bond-or-don't-do-it at the end isn't just a "happily ever after" throw-on either. It means that there isn't just some cure out there where Harry can wave his magic (metaphorical) wand and make everything better. It's a serious decision with serious, long-term consequences that, considering the relationship between the two characters, could mean that the "cure" is actually worse than the disease.
So, yes, in the end I am mildly hurt by the fact that you find this insulting, especially considering that I live with a physically disabled brother and a mentally disabled aunt and know how very hard it can be to live with disabled people who look and act "normal."
I am sorry for making you feel bad, or insulted, or whatever, but you got your wish anon - your comment alone was enough to insure that this prompt never gets filled. I'll be asking the emmymod to lock/delete at her discretion.
You might want to read about it -- it will explain a number of things, including why having some able-bodied person come along and arbitrarily decide that someone needs a cure is offensive.
I am disabled. I do not need to be cured. I am insulted by the suggestion that my life is flawed and I need a cure to make it better. My life is awesome. The assumption that people need to be cured is, in fact, ablism.
ablism with an I, and everything.
And I think you just won my argument for me. Thank you. That was beautiful.
This request wasn't about you. It's a fictional request set in a fictional world based on not even a disability but a magical ailment taking place in a world filled with magical ailments. It's along the lines of Harry attempting to cure Susan of vampirism (canon), not him attempting to cure Michael of his permanent limp. One would be ableism, one wouldn't. The OP is requesting the former, not someone attempting to "cure" someone of a real disability.
1. Your definition of disability appears to be based on stereotypes and ignorance. It is absolutely not true that people with physical disabilities are disabled and people with chronic illnesses are not. As a matter of fact, there is an anon on this meme I know well who has a disability based on chronic illness and pain, who is probably spitting at sight of your comment.
What the op asked for would be a person who not only met the legal definition of disabled in the United States, but who would also be perfectly right to claim and develop a disabled identity as a larger matter.
This prompt is about a disabled person, make no mistake about that.
2. Your contention that the prompt would have to be about me personally in order for me to be offended is absurd. It makes a good derailing tactic -- in fact I think it's the middle square on at least one derailing bingo card -- but "it's just fiction, don't take it personal" is not going to persuade me, no.
It's a legitimate request, so don't feel upset about it. There are more ways to write it than just as one perfectly abled person being held over a disabled person in some way, with all of the angst falling on the perfectly abled person. This is a bad place to be made to feel bad about requesting something.
I'm not basking in that irony. I find it ironic that I was so upset at her comment I went straight to my English degree side, which pointed out the typo. And then I was so upset that I made a typo myself. We both went to the same site and both made a typo in spelling because we were both upset - that is irony.
And yes, I can sometimes be an ass. It happens when I come home from a long day at work to discover someone has taken a prompt I meant to be introspective and full of angst and focused on one line in it so that it became an insult against them and a completely shit prompt.
I'm not saying he or she can't be offended - I'm saying he or she doesn't have to be such an ass about it and turn it into this mess, where we all look like dipshits who can't stand each other.
And this line is just as bad. We need to remember that how something is said is just as important as what is said.
"Fixing" a prompt to essentially say "yes, I'm calling myself an ableist and am freely admitting it" can hurt worse than someone saying "I find this prompt insulting and ableist, would you please consider rewording it?"
I live with a physically disabled brother and a mentally disabled aunt and know how very hard it can be to live with disabled people who look and act "normal."
Bully for you. As someone is IS a disabled person who looks and acts "normal", I was every bit as pissed off by the prompt as LGI was.
Wanting cures for a person with a disability when the PWD has NOT REQUESTED A CURE is ablist and insulting.
Also, I fail to see how helping with a problem is insulting
"Helping" requires the person being helped has requested help. Do you also grab the hands of blind people and drag them across the street without them asking? Because that's what this is about.
"Helping" requires the person being helped has requested help. Do you also grab the hands of blind people and drag them across the street without them asking? Because that's what this is about.
No, that's not what this is about. That's what this has been made to be about.
Helping does not require that someone request help - helping can be offered. IE, if I ask that blind person if they want help across the street when I see him having trouble, I am giving help. He has not asked for it and he has every right to decline it. An ableist would, as you put it "drag them across the street" anyways. The prompt follows more along the lines of "I didn't realize you were blind."
And still - not what the prompt was about. If you find out someone has cancer, then go and research to find out more about it and also find out there's a cure for the type of cancer they have (yes, this is a fictional world where there's some sort of cure), what do you do with that? Do you tell them about the cure? Or, as some of the non-OP's are suggesting, do you just assume that they don't know about it and go about assuming that they don't want to be cured? That is what the prompt is about. Knowledge, and what you do with it. Finding a "happy ending" whether that ending means a cure, living with vampirism, dodging bullets, or being satisfied that you have offered all you could and there's nothing more you can do.
Also - is it insulting to you that I want there to be a cure available so you have the choice? I'm sorry, but I find THAT insulting to everyone else out there with the same disability who does want the cure, and does want the choice.
Just because there is a cure doesn't mean you have to use it, for chrissakes.
Actually I DO want a cure for my disability. But if anyone tried to give me one without my knowledge I would hurt them so hard they'd need my pain meds more than I do.
This entire prompt is about Harry curing someone without their knowledge or consent:
[Sick!character] has lived with this illness for a long time, and brushes it off
will he tell the one he cures?
Alternately, you can focus on [...] the cured character finding out about the bond.
Ah, but the problem is this idea of when you see him having trouble constructs the entire idea around your able-bodied notion of what is trouble and what a disabled person needs. In my rather large experience, people think I'm "having trouble" when I am literally standing at a street corner waiting for the light to change and twittering. Just being disabled in most cases is apparently "in trouble."
To put a finer point on it, it is pretty universally agreed in the disabled circles I move in that unsolicited helpers are more obnoxious than anything. And are, significantly, really just out to make themselves feel good. It's usually worth being polite as you brush them off, but people who randomly come up to me to offer help are wasting my time, getting in my way, and imposing their able-bodied idea of "help" and my ability onto me from a position of ignorance. People who actually want to be helpful wait to be asked, because they understand it is not their place to impose their ideas onto someone else.
Lovely. Again, this prompt is not about you or even your interpretation of the prompt. You have your interpretation of it, it offends you, great. Get away from it. It's actively aggravating you, so get away from it. Please, stop jumping on people's prompts. Even if you find it offensive, it still follows the basic rules, and I would hate to see people afraid to post their own prompts because they're afraid someone would interpret it based on their own sensitivities. You don't like it, it offends you, we get it.
So you're saying I should just let the person fall on their ass when they're doing so? I see that often enough, and most people just walk on by and don't care. I'm ashamed to admit that I've walked by a few times and not offered help when I'm running late. Why do people do this? IMHO, mostly because no one cares anymore - the person who fell is just going to say no anyways, right? And, hey, it's not my problem, right?
I'm sorry, but I'm actually less likely to help the person who asks for it. That could be because where I'm raised, the people who ask for help are the lazy asses who won't work, won't do what they're able, and are looking for handouts. The ones who need help are the ones who don't ask.
But I will admit that is a very localized mentality and reality, and does not apply everywhere. I do not assume it is the same when I travel, or when I talk to others.
I will also agree with you that standing around does not constitute "trouble" (I've had the same problem once or twice myself, funnily enough), and that "trouble" is subjective. Where I'm from, however, unsolicited help is rare enough that it is not obnoxious and worth thanking the person for offering. Even when you're just standing there and you don't know why they're asking if you need it.
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timeasmymeasure
(frozen) Re: Please, don't say anything. Even the subject line is full of fail.
Date: 2011-03-17 11:09 pm (UTC)Also, I'm sorry if you feel it's insulting, but I don't think wanting cures for something is something to feel insulted about. Also, the prompt doesn't specifically state that the other character is disabled - only that they have some sort of long-lasting disease or curse. Considering those offered by the "preferred pairings," this disease or curse shouldn't really be considered disabling. Those characters are certainly capable of doing anything that most other people are capable of doing.
You've also forgotten to consider the fact that, yes, Jim Butcher's world is a world of faults. Harry is a misogynist to an extent - shifting that to someone else who has a problem he may be able to ease/cure.
Also, I fail to see how helping with a problem is insulting when we have prompts that include tentacle porn, borderline bestiality, rape, and fuck-or-die prompts and fills.
Tacking the bond-or-don't-do-it at the end isn't just a "happily ever after" throw-on either. It means that there isn't just some cure out there where Harry can wave his magic (metaphorical) wand and make everything better. It's a serious decision with serious, long-term consequences that, considering the relationship between the two characters, could mean that the "cure" is actually worse than the disease.
So, yes, in the end I am mildly hurt by the fact that you find this insulting, especially considering that I live with a physically disabled brother and a mentally disabled aunt and know how very hard it can be to live with disabled people who look and act "normal."
I am sorry for making you feel bad, or insulted, or whatever, but you got your wish anon - your comment alone was enough to insure that this prompt never gets filled. I'll be asking the emmymod to lock/delete at her discretion.
(frozen) Re: Please, don't say anything. Even the subject line is full of fail.
Date: 2011-03-17 11:23 pm (UTC)You might want to read about it -- it will explain a number of things, including why having some able-bodied person come along and arbitrarily decide that someone needs a cure is offensive.
I am disabled. I do not need to be cured. I am insulted by the suggestion that my life is flawed and I need a cure to make it better. My life is awesome. The assumption that people need to be cured is, in fact, ablism.
ablism with an I, and everything.
And I think you just won my argument for me. Thank you. That was beautiful.
(frozen) Re: Please, don't say anything. Even the subject line is full of fail.
Date: 2011-03-17 11:28 pm (UTC)(frozen) Re: Please, don't say anything. Even the subject line is full of fail.
Date: 2011-03-17 11:31 pm (UTC)(frozen) Re: Please, don't say anything. Even the subject line is full of fail.
Date: 2011-03-18 01:08 am (UTC)1. Your definition of disability appears to be based on stereotypes and ignorance. It is absolutely not true that people with physical disabilities are disabled and people with chronic illnesses are not. As a matter of fact, there is an anon on this meme I know well who has a disability based on chronic illness and pain, who is probably spitting at sight of your comment.
What the op asked for would be a person who not only met the legal definition of disabled in the United States, but who would also be perfectly right to claim and develop a disabled identity as a larger matter.
This prompt is about a disabled person, make no mistake about that.
2. Your contention that the prompt would have to be about me personally in order for me to be offended is absurd. It makes a good derailing tactic -- in fact I think it's the middle square on at least one derailing bingo card -- but "it's just fiction, don't take it personal" is not going to persuade me, no.
(frozen) Re: Please, don't say anything. Even the subject line is full of fail.
Date: 2011-03-18 01:23 am (UTC)I will agree with you on #1, though I'm not the anon you speak of and I don't know him/her.
I'm not sure that the OP was asking for a disabled person, however. As another anon pointed out, Thomas and Susan's situations also fit the prompt.
...and I'll agree with you on your second point. It doesn't have to be about you, although the recent comments are getting rather biting.
(frozen) Re: Please, don't say anything. Even the subject line is full of fail.
Date: 2011-03-18 01:35 am (UTC)Not my problem. And for the record, I have not said a single thing anon in this thread. I will put my name on everything I've said here gladly.
(frozen) Re: Please, don't say anything. Even the subject line is full of fail.
Date: 2011-03-18 01:51 am (UTC)http://scribe-protra.livejournal.com/216205.html
(frozen) Re: Please, don't say anything. Even the subject line is full of fail.
Date: 2011-03-18 02:15 am (UTC)(frozen) Re: Please, don't say anything. Even the subject line is full of fail.
Date: 2011-03-17 11:23 pm (UTC)(frozen) Re: Please, don't say anything. Even the subject line is full of fail.
Date: 2011-03-17 11:28 pm (UTC)(frozen) Re: Please, don't say anything. Even the subject line is full of fail.
Date: 2011-03-17 11:33 pm (UTC)(frozen) Re: Please, don't say anything. Even the subject line is full of fail.
Date: 2011-03-17 11:44 pm (UTC)(frozen) Re: Please, don't say anything. Even the subject line is full of fail.
Date: 2011-03-17 11:49 pm (UTC)And yes, I can sometimes be an ass. It happens when I come home from a long day at work to discover someone has taken a prompt I meant to be introspective and full of angst and focused on one line in it so that it became an insult against them and a completely shit prompt.
(frozen) Re: Please, don't say anything. Even the subject line is full of fail.
Date: 2011-03-17 11:54 pm (UTC)(frozen) Re: Please, don't say anything. Even the subject line is full of fail.
Date: 2011-03-17 11:55 pm (UTC)(frozen) Re: Please, don't say anything. Even the subject line is full of fail.
Date: 2011-03-18 12:01 am (UTC)"Fixing" a prompt to essentially say "yes, I'm calling myself an ableist and am freely admitting it" can hurt worse than someone saying "I find this prompt insulting and ableist, would you please consider rewording it?"
(frozen) Re: Please, don't say anything. Even the subject line is full of fail.
From: (Anonymous) - Date: 2011-03-18 12:44 am (UTC) - Expand(frozen) Re: Please, don't say anything. Even the subject line is full of fail.
From: (Anonymous) - Date: 2011-03-18 12:51 am (UTC) - Expand(frozen) Re: Please, don't say anything. Even the subject line is full of fail.
From: (Anonymous) - Date: 2011-03-18 12:56 am (UTC) - Expand(frozen) Re: Please, don't say anything. Even the subject line is full of fail.
From: (Anonymous) - Date: 2011-03-18 01:04 am (UTC) - Expand(frozen) Re: Please, don't say anything. Even the subject line is full of fail.
Date: 2011-03-18 02:12 am (UTC)Bully for you. As someone is IS a disabled person who looks and acts "normal", I was every bit as pissed off by the prompt as LGI was.
Wanting cures for a person with a disability when the PWD has NOT REQUESTED A CURE is ablist and insulting.
"Helping" requires the person being helped has requested help. Do you also grab the hands of blind people and drag them across the street without them asking? Because that's what this is about.
(frozen) Re: Please, don't say anything. Even the subject line is full of fail.
Date: 2011-03-18 02:20 am (UTC)No, that's not what this is about. That's what this has been made to be about.
Helping does not require that someone request help - helping can be offered. IE, if I ask that blind person if they want help across the street when I see him having trouble, I am giving help. He has not asked for it and he has every right to decline it. An ableist would, as you put it "drag them across the street" anyways. The prompt follows more along the lines of "I didn't realize you were blind."
And still - not what the prompt was about. If you find out someone has cancer, then go and research to find out more about it and also find out there's a cure for the type of cancer they have (yes, this is a fictional world where there's some sort of cure), what do you do with that? Do you tell them about the cure? Or, as some of the non-OP's are suggesting, do you just assume that they don't know about it and go about assuming that they don't want to be cured? That is what the prompt is about. Knowledge, and what you do with it. Finding a "happy ending" whether that ending means a cure, living with vampirism, dodging bullets, or being satisfied that you have offered all you could and there's nothing more you can do.
(frozen) Re: Please, don't say anything. Even the subject line is full of fail.
Date: 2011-03-18 02:22 am (UTC)Just because there is a cure doesn't mean you have to use it, for chrissakes.
(frozen) Re: Please, don't say anything. Even the subject line is full of fail.
Date: 2011-03-18 02:39 am (UTC)This entire prompt is about Harry curing someone without their knowledge or consent:
(frozen) Re: Please, don't say anything. Even the subject line is full of fail.
Date: 2011-03-18 02:38 am (UTC)Ah, but the problem is this idea of when you see him having trouble constructs the entire idea around your able-bodied notion of what is trouble and what a disabled person needs. In my rather large experience, people think I'm "having trouble" when I am literally standing at a street corner waiting for the light to change and twittering. Just being disabled in most cases is apparently "in trouble."
To put a finer point on it, it is pretty universally agreed in the disabled circles I move in that unsolicited helpers are more obnoxious than anything. And are, significantly, really just out to make themselves feel good. It's usually worth being polite as you brush them off, but people who randomly come up to me to offer help are wasting my time, getting in my way, and imposing their able-bodied idea of "help" and my ability onto me from a position of ignorance. People who actually want to be helpful wait to be asked, because they understand it is not their place to impose their ideas onto someone else.
And that is what the prompt is about.
(frozen) Re: Please, don't say anything. Even the subject line is full of fail.
Date: 2011-03-18 02:52 am (UTC)(frozen) Re: Please, don't say anything. Even the subject line is full of fail.
Date: 2011-03-18 02:53 am (UTC)I'm sorry, but I'm actually less likely to help the person who asks for it. That could be because where I'm raised, the people who ask for help are the lazy asses who won't work, won't do what they're able, and are looking for handouts. The ones who need help are the ones who don't ask.
But I will admit that is a very localized mentality and reality, and does not apply everywhere. I do not assume it is the same when I travel, or when I talk to others.
I will also agree with you that standing around does not constitute "trouble" (I've had the same problem once or twice myself, funnily enough), and that "trouble" is subjective. Where I'm from, however, unsolicited help is rare enough that it is not obnoxious and worth thanking the person for offering. Even when you're just standing there and you don't know why they're asking if you need it.
(frozen) DISCUSSION
Date: 2011-03-18 03:44 am (UTC)For any meta, dicussion, or just general love and squee. http://scribe-protra.livejournal.com/216205.html
For any meta, dicussion, or just general love and squee. http://scribe-protra.livejournal.com/216205.html
For any meta, dicussion, or just general love and squee. http://scribe-protra.livejournal.com/216205.html