scribe_protra | Round 2 is closed.

Agreed.

If we can have fills with rape where it is clearly being done against the person's consent (hence the term "rape"), deal with gender issues, have generous use of "date rape" scenarios (including fuck-or-die and AMTDI), then disability prompts should not be an issue. There are a whole host of other prompts and fills which are clearly not OK in real life, but we're writing and prompting them anyways.

This argument seriously needs to end.

The difference is that nobody in this kinkmeme, whatever rape fantasies they have, believes that rape is a good idea, or goes about raping people.

Several of you clearly believe that healing PWD against their will or without their knowledge is a great idea. Several of you clearly believe that going out and "helping" people based on the able-bodied person's idea of what help they need is a great idea. The OP of this prompt has outright said that their issue with the disabled people and their life is how annoying it is to have disabled people in your life.

I don't believe that any of you will rape me. But I do believe, based on some of the things that I've seen said here, that if I encounter any of you in real life you might harm me. And I would like to believe that some education might happen here, probably not to the original poster who has clearly checked out of the discussion, but to some of the lurkers. I would like to believe that some of those lurkers will think twice about the people with disabilities in their lives.

Or it's a bunch of people bitching on a kink meme of all places, taking up space, hurting people's feelings needlessly, and annoying people who are interested in prompts and fills and not arguments. If people feel the need for a real discussion for this, I think an alternate link should be given just for that discussion. If it's not that important, then it should just stop here.

Frankly I'm finding it much more interesting than the usual boring brainstorming and squeeing that goes on instead of fills and takes up space. I think an alternate link should be given just for that discussion. If it's not that important, then it should just stop here.

More interesting, yes. Rife with multiple issues and killing a whole lot of good feeling? Also, yes.

Somewhere under this prompt an anon did point out that there is a discussion post.
Heck, it's posted right below the rules of the kink meme.

I have no idea who you are. You might think that rape is a good idea. You might be able to track who I am through my posts, come and find me in my bed, and do some of the things I have written about or prompted to me, because I've written about them so "clearly" I must want them.

I have no idea what your issues are, and you have no idea what mine are or what the OP's are. Maybe the OP is an ableist, maybe she isn't. Maybe s/he has issues with all disabled people, or mabye just the ones in his/her life. We don't know and assuming otherwise is ignorance all around.

I always make the assumption that someone can harm me. I assume that people are ignorant, and I try to be tolerant. But honestly, this isn't a school and we're not here to teach lessons or show people why their prompts can't happen in RL.

This is a kink meme. Meant for kinks and for fun. Please keep it that way.

*raises hand* Where is the right place to educate people about prejudice then? I see this argument all the time. The tone argument, the venue argument, these just distract from the issue. This isn't a school, no, but schools don't tell you about ableism. It has to be discovered in situations like this so people can learn. Because sorry, I don't think I would have ever heard of ableism if it weren't for debates like this.

Seriously? We had discussions similar to these in my English classes, my sociology classes, and my psychology classes. I'm certain I've had them other places as well, but I'm not sure. It's also something that's come up in conversations with friends and family, though generally not in a public situation or where we could be easily overheard because of situations like what happened here - someone says something, someone else gets offended, and the whole conversation degenerates from there.

I'm not sure there is a "right" place to discuss issues like this, but there are certainly appropriate and inappropriate places and ways. This is a hurtful and vengeful discussion in a kink meme. Had this been moved to the discussion thread (as asked) and talked about in a calm manner without the insults and the intentional disregard of the feelings of anons who feel differently, then I think that would have been a better course - I wouldn't have a problem with it then.

For any meta, dicussion, or just general love and squee. http://scribe-protra.livejournal.com/216205.html

For any meta, dicussion, or just general love and squee. http://scribe-protra.livejournal.com/216205.html

For any meta, dicussion, or just general love and squee. http://scribe-protra.livejournal.com/216205.html

For any meta, dicussion, or just general love and squee. http://scribe-protra.livejournal.com/216205.html

^ THIS! Please.

Rule 5 is definitely getting violated here.

But I do believe, based on some of the things that I've seen said here, that if I encounter any of you in real life you might harm me.

I am confused by this statement and would like clarification of what you mean. What kind of harm do you mean?

Attempt to do things that you believe will help me without asking first if it's help I need. I encounter this kind of help every day. Some of it is coworkers telling me not to do my job because I might hurt myself, thus harming me professionally. Some of it is people taking things away from me because they are afraid I will hurt myself -- and even if one disregards the psychological harm caused by that, in the act of taking things away from me that I want to be holding you can cause me physical harm. Some of it is people telling me to stop doing things I'm perfectly capable of doing because they think I am hurting myself, people yelling at me and harassing me because they think they are being "helpful". There are people who body check me out of the way of doors because they want to be helpful by opening them for me. Etc.

Not to be offensive or anything, but this happens to "abled" people as well.

I get many of the same things - the doors, people doing things for me, telling me to stop doing things I can do - because of who I am: an average-sized woman. I've had people tell me I can't lift a 60-lb saddle because women should not lift over 20 pounds, and this is after I've lifted 5 to 10 of those saddles every day for a long time, both on and off the horse. Not only that, but I need to fix it when they get it wrong, which can be dangerous around a thousand+ pound horse who's getting antsy.

So, no offense, but none of those experiences are unique to disabilities and ableism. They are universal to any kind of -ism, which most everyone has experienced to one extent or another (from either side) at some point.

... And... that matters because...?

Just because that's not exclusive to ableism doesn't make the situation less worthy speaking about.

I was not trying to imply that it wasn't worthy of speaking about, simply trying to point out that it happens anyways.

It's easier this way:

idea that nonnie might be harmed by ableists if encountered - other nonnie asking how - first nonnie giving examples - this nonnie trying to point out that it doesn't have to be an ableist (or another nonnie from this thread) to happen; it could happen anyways. That's the risk you take by living.

Which doesn't make it right by any means. Just pointing out that we're moving into larger issues here.

Please move this here: http://scribe-protra.livejournal.com/216205.html

I understand this is something people really want to discuss, but this link would probably be more appropriate. Thanks.

That sucks and you have my sympathies. I don't know if I always succeed but I do my best to treat differently abled people in the same way I would an able bodied person.

While I hope it won't stop you continuing to take part,I am very sorry that you felt uncomfortable on the meme and around the Nonnies for any length of time.

I am very sorry that you felt uncomfortable on the meme

... That matters more than I can say, actually. Thank you.

I am sorry to everyone who wants this moved, but I promise this is my last post here (mostly because I'm going to bed next, not because the discussion isn't interesting).

But this comment sort of bugged me actually. Because the OP actually apologized for the prompt and apologized for insulting/hurting other anons very early on. Several times, but this is the first I found: http://scribe-protra.dreamwidth.org/306.html?thread=841010#cmt841010

Granted, yes, the OP was also upset and hurting his/herself, and so it does come across with a lot of other things that just added to the fire.

However, I am offended on his/her behalf that this apology by a different anon matters, while his/her early apologies got ignored.

For any meta, dicussion, or just general love and squee. http://scribe-protra.livejournal.com/216205.html

For any meta, dicussion, or just general love and squee. http://scribe-protra.livejournal.com/216205.html

For any meta, dicussion, or just general love and squee. http://scribe-protra.livejournal.com/216205.html

For any meta, dicussion, or just general love and squee. http://scribe-protra.livejournal.com/216205.html

[point].............................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................. [equating fictional noncon with real ableism]

Round 2 is closed.

(frozen comment) Re: Please, don't say anything. Even the subject line is full of fail.

(frozen comment) Re: Please, don't say anything. Even the subject line is full of fail.

(frozen comment) Re: Please, don't say anything. Even the subject line is full of fail.

(frozen comment) Re: Please, don't say anything. Even the subject line is full of fail.

(frozen comment) Re: Please, don't say anything. Even the subject line is full of fail.

(frozen comment) Re: Please, don't say anything. Even the subject line is full of fail.

(frozen comment) Re: Please, don't say anything. Even the subject line is full of fail.

(frozen comment) Re: Please, don't say anything. Even the subject line is full of fail.

(frozen comment) Re: Please, don't say anything. Even the subject line is full of fail.

(frozen comment) DISCUSSION

(frozen comment) Re: DISCUSSION

(frozen comment) Re: Please, don't say anything. Even the subject line is full of fail.

(frozen comment) Re: Please, don't say anything. Even the subject line is full of fail.

(frozen comment) Re: Please, don't say anything. Even the subject line is full of fail.

(frozen comment) Re: Please, don't say anything. Even the subject line is full of fail.

(frozen comment) Re: Please, don't say anything. Even the subject line is full of fail.

(frozen comment) Re: Please, don't say anything. Even the subject line is full of fail.

(frozen comment) Re: Please, don't say anything. Even the subject line is full of fail.

(frozen comment) Re: Please, don't say anything. Even the subject line is full of fail.

(frozen comment) Re: Please, don't say anything. Even the subject line is full of fail.

(frozen comment) Re: Please, don't say anything. Even the subject line is full of fail.

(frozen comment) Re: Please, don't say anything. Even the subject line is full of fail.