scribe_protra | Round 2 is closed.

The difference is that nobody in this kinkmeme, whatever rape fantasies they have, believes that rape is a good idea, or goes about raping people.

Several of you clearly believe that healing PWD against their will or without their knowledge is a great idea. Several of you clearly believe that going out and "helping" people based on the able-bodied person's idea of what help they need is a great idea. The OP of this prompt has outright said that their issue with the disabled people and their life is how annoying it is to have disabled people in your life.

I don't believe that any of you will rape me. But I do believe, based on some of the things that I've seen said here, that if I encounter any of you in real life you might harm me. And I would like to believe that some education might happen here, probably not to the original poster who has clearly checked out of the discussion, but to some of the lurkers. I would like to believe that some of those lurkers will think twice about the people with disabilities in their lives.

[point].............................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................. [equating fictional noncon with real ableism]

Or it's a bunch of people bitching on a kink meme of all places, taking up space, hurting people's feelings needlessly, and annoying people who are interested in prompts and fills and not arguments. If people feel the need for a real discussion for this, I think an alternate link should be given just for that discussion. If it's not that important, then it should just stop here.

JFC! Can we SERIOUSLY get a mercy kill down here?

I count at least two Nonnies who have for two different reasons been made to feel that this is not a fun safe place for everyone to enjoy Dresden fic and their own personal kink and experiences.

YES, we do need to point out if someone is being racist, ablest, sexist or otherwise discriminatory, that is the only way to learn new points of view.

Yes, some disabled people are assholes, so are some able bodied people. Your personal experiences may mean that prompts will annoy you or upset you. This may result in you being an ass, how ever unintentionally. You have that right, and someone else has the right to call you on it.

You speak for yourself and not for anyone else regardless of whether you share experiences that they use to define themselves or not. You can point out if someone is offensive and take offense yourself but you can't say that everyone who could be offended by this would be. The fact that someone who isn't affected by an issue you tackled offensively points out that it's offensive means that it is still offensive.

Everyone has a different idea of what makes a happy ending.

Dresden is a fandom RIFE with issues.

It was an ambiguous prompt which allows for varied interpretation and has some major issues beyond simple kink. Different anons have had different reactions to it and to each others responses.

Some people want a cure if it is available, others don't. Some people want to help others, others would rather help themselves. People make assumptions based on their own experiences.

Frankly I'm finding it much more interesting than the usual boring brainstorming and squeeing that goes on instead of fills and takes up space. I think an alternate link should be given just for that discussion. If it's not that important, then it should just stop here.

I have no idea who you are. You might think that rape is a good idea. You might be able to track who I am through my posts, come and find me in my bed, and do some of the things I have written about or prompted to me, because I've written about them so "clearly" I must want them.

I have no idea what your issues are, and you have no idea what mine are or what the OP's are. Maybe the OP is an ableist, maybe she isn't. Maybe s/he has issues with all disabled people, or mabye just the ones in his/her life. We don't know and assuming otherwise is ignorance all around.

I always make the assumption that someone can harm me. I assume that people are ignorant, and I try to be tolerant. But honestly, this isn't a school and we're not here to teach lessons or show people why their prompts can't happen in RL.

This is a kink meme. Meant for kinks and for fun. Please keep it that way.

More interesting, yes. Rife with multiple issues and killing a whole lot of good feeling? Also, yes.

But I do believe, based on some of the things that I've seen said here, that if I encounter any of you in real life you might harm me.

I am confused by this statement and would like clarification of what you mean. What kind of harm do you mean?

Somewhere under this prompt an anon did point out that there is a discussion post.
Heck, it's posted right below the rules of the kink meme.

Attempt to do things that you believe will help me without asking first if it's help I need. I encounter this kind of help every day. Some of it is coworkers telling me not to do my job because I might hurt myself, thus harming me professionally. Some of it is people taking things away from me because they are afraid I will hurt myself -- and even if one disregards the psychological harm caused by that, in the act of taking things away from me that I want to be holding you can cause me physical harm. Some of it is people telling me to stop doing things I'm perfectly capable of doing because they think I am hurting myself, people yelling at me and harassing me because they think they are being "helpful". There are people who body check me out of the way of doors because they want to be helpful by opening them for me. Etc.

Not to be offensive or anything, but this happens to "abled" people as well.

I get many of the same things - the doors, people doing things for me, telling me to stop doing things I can do - because of who I am: an average-sized woman. I've had people tell me I can't lift a 60-lb saddle because women should not lift over 20 pounds, and this is after I've lifted 5 to 10 of those saddles every day for a long time, both on and off the horse. Not only that, but I need to fix it when they get it wrong, which can be dangerous around a thousand+ pound horse who's getting antsy.

So, no offense, but none of those experiences are unique to disabilities and ableism. They are universal to any kind of -ism, which most everyone has experienced to one extent or another (from either side) at some point.

*raises hand* Where is the right place to educate people about prejudice then? I see this argument all the time. The tone argument, the venue argument, these just distract from the issue. This isn't a school, no, but schools don't tell you about ableism. It has to be discovered in situations like this so people can learn. Because sorry, I don't think I would have ever heard of ableism if it weren't for debates like this.

That sucks and you have my sympathies. I don't know if I always succeed but I do my best to treat differently abled people in the same way I would an able bodied person.

While I hope it won't stop you continuing to take part,I am very sorry that you felt uncomfortable on the meme and around the Nonnies for any length of time.

... And... that matters because...?

Just because that's not exclusive to ableism doesn't make the situation less worthy speaking about.

Seriously? We had discussions similar to these in my English classes, my sociology classes, and my psychology classes. I'm certain I've had them other places as well, but I'm not sure. It's also something that's come up in conversations with friends and family, though generally not in a public situation or where we could be easily overheard because of situations like what happened here - someone says something, someone else gets offended, and the whole conversation degenerates from there.

I'm not sure there is a "right" place to discuss issues like this, but there are certainly appropriate and inappropriate places and ways. This is a hurtful and vengeful discussion in a kink meme. Had this been moved to the discussion thread (as asked) and talked about in a calm manner without the insults and the intentional disregard of the feelings of anons who feel differently, then I think that would have been a better course - I wouldn't have a problem with it then.

I am very sorry that you felt uncomfortable on the meme

... That matters more than I can say, actually. Thank you.

For any meta, dicussion, or just general love and squee. http://scribe-protra.livejournal.com/216205.html

For any meta, dicussion, or just general love and squee. http://scribe-protra.livejournal.com/216205.html

For any meta, dicussion, or just general love and squee. http://scribe-protra.livejournal.com/216205.html

For any meta, dicussion, or just general love and squee. http://scribe-protra.livejournal.com/216205.html

I was not trying to imply that it wasn't worthy of speaking about, simply trying to point out that it happens anyways.

It's easier this way:

idea that nonnie might be harmed by ableists if encountered - other nonnie asking how - first nonnie giving examples - this nonnie trying to point out that it doesn't have to be an ableist (or another nonnie from this thread) to happen; it could happen anyways. That's the risk you take by living.

Which doesn't make it right by any means. Just pointing out that we're moving into larger issues here.

For any meta, dicussion, or just general love and squee. http://scribe-protra.livejournal.com/216205.html

For any meta, dicussion, or just general love and squee. http://scribe-protra.livejournal.com/216205.html

For any meta, dicussion, or just general love and squee. http://scribe-protra.livejournal.com/216205.html

For any meta, dicussion, or just general love and squee. http://scribe-protra.livejournal.com/216205.html

Please move this here: http://scribe-protra.livejournal.com/216205.html

I understand this is something people really want to discuss, but this link would probably be more appropriate. Thanks.

^ THIS! Please.

Rule 5 is definitely getting violated here.

I am sorry to everyone who wants this moved, but I promise this is my last post here (mostly because I'm going to bed next, not because the discussion isn't interesting).

But this comment sort of bugged me actually. Because the OP actually apologized for the prompt and apologized for insulting/hurting other anons very early on. Several times, but this is the first I found: http://scribe-protra.dreamwidth.org/306.html?thread=841010#cmt841010

Granted, yes, the OP was also upset and hurting his/herself, and so it does come across with a lot of other things that just added to the fire.

However, I am offended on his/her behalf that this apology by a different anon matters, while his/her early apologies got ignored.

For any meta, dicussion, or just general love and squee. http://scribe-protra.livejournal.com/216205.html

For any meta, dicussion, or just general love and squee. http://scribe-protra.livejournal.com/216205.html

For any meta, dicussion, or just general love and squee. http://scribe-protra.livejournal.com/216205.html

For any meta, dicussion, or just general love and squee. http://scribe-protra.livejournal.com/216205.html

Someone's take/rant/philosophy/pov (Hendricks, Marcone, Father Forthill, whoever!) on "good" and/or "evil" please.

Mark fingered his tags and felt the ring spin around the chain. He smiled in spite of himself as he thought of Harry. Somehow he would get out of here; if for no other reason than to keep his promise to Harry.

He had been here for nearly two years as far as he could guess but it felt like longer. He had used a spring from the mattress to scrape mortar from around a stone on the floor. After six months he had finally managed to lift the stone to reveal the packed dirt underneath. From then on he used the spring to loosen the dirt and then dug with his bare hands. It had taken him another year and three months but tonight was the night. He would be in the jungle and on his way to Harry by morning. He scraped away the dirt that blocked his escape to reveal... stone.

He slapped it angrily and it rang hollow. A minute later there was an answering knock. He rapped again rhythmically and the rhythm was repeated. "Who is there?" he called. "Shiro, a prisoner here like yourself."

"Captain Mark Jones, US Army. Can you lift the stone if I push it?"

There was a considering pause. "Yes."

With effort and cooperation the stone moved and Mark found himself in a cell identical to his. Its occupant was an old Asian man. He looked like the mentor in every martial arts film ever made. "What were you doing?"

"Trying to escape. I thought I had dug far enough. What's outside your window?" he said nodding at the grating high in the wall.

"A courtyard. Beyond the door is a corridor filled with Red Court Vampires. I am afraid your efforts have not brought you much success."

"Vampires? Red Court?"

Shiro looked hard at Mark. "You don't know anything do you?"

"You're the first person I've seen since January of 1996. My platoon was returning to the evac point after a raid on a drug-lords compound. We were ambushed and I woke up here. Where ever this is."

"This is the Castillo De Casaverde; home of Don Paolo Ortega, Duke of the Red Court. He uses the dungeons as a prison for those who he can neither allow to roam free nor kill. Why he should imprison you rather than kill you I don't know. Tell me about yourself."

There wasn't much to tell. Mark was an orphan, joined the Army at 17 where he met Jim Harding in base training and became best friends. Mark had risen to become a Captain in Special Ops at 25. "Then, two years four months and five days ago I met the love of my life, Harry Dresden. I was going to leave the Army to marry him after this mission. There was no reason for any one to toss me in prison."

"You were a well-placed man in the Army, you were in love, you were happy. Three reasons for many to hate you. People do not like to see others succeed where they have failed. Tell me about the investigation you mentioned?"

"There was talk that someone was smuggling drugs through the base. I know Colonel Vargessi was stressed about it but Jim said there was nothing to worry about."

"Who knew about your mission?"

"The colonel, the men on my team, Jim, who ever ordered it at the Pentagon. Oh, Archeleone probably knew too."

"Who?"

"Nicholas Archeleone. CID sent him down to the base to look into the drug running."

"Did you ever speak to him?"

"Yeah, we caught a couple of privates and a corporal in the motor pool. I was the one that overheard them. There wasn't much I could tell CID though. They mentioned the name Niccodemus and Anduriel but I didn't get any context. Archeleone and Vargessi were pretty mad I arrested them. They wanted to set up a sting but I spoiled it."

"I imagine they were. The Vargessis are a famous crime family, they have strong ties to the drug lords you were working against. As for Nicholas Archeleone, he is a 2000 year old demon; head of the Order of the Blackened Denarius. His true name is Niccodemus Archeleone and he works in partnership with the demon Anduriel. I had heard he was working with Ortega. You were set up. If anything I would say you are lucky to be alive. Ortega must have his own plans for you."

Mark blinked in shock. "No, Jim would have known if something was going on."

"I would say he's working with them. Even if he wasn't he's in love with you."

"I would have noticed." Mark said desperately.

"As you noticed the drugs passing through the base? You were head over heels in love. You wouldn't have noticed a circus setting up camp at the gates unless it stopped you seeing Harry." Mark nodded wryly. "Everything you have described about him says that he was in love with you and consumed with jealousy towards Harry. Ortega and Vargessi were channeling drugs through your base; Niccodemus went to the base to provide a pretense at an investigation; and probably to get his claws into Vargessi. You stumbled upon an expendable link in their organization but if you mentioned what you heard to a real investigator it could expose them all. You had to be disposed of. Three powerful men needing you gone to continue their trade in peace and the only man who might stumble upon the truth hating you for rejecting his love."

Mark snarled and Shiro nodded. "I can see that you want revenge. That can be good. Take that energy and channel it for yourself. You don't know anything about the world your enemies work in. I can teach you and together we can escape."

Round 2 is closed.

(frozen comment) Re: Please, don't say anything. Even the subject line is full of fail.

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(frozen comment) HEY EMMYMOD!

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(frozen comment) DISCUSSION

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(frozen comment) DISCUSSION

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(frozen comment) Re: DISCUSSION

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(frozen comment) Re: Please, don't say anything. Even the subject line is full of fail.

Social Constructivism

Fill: The Gentleman of Chicago 2/?